Here are your blog prompts for "Ghosts." A little late, but, I suck. Whaddayagonnado?
** Ibsen did not like the title "Ghosts," since the real meaning of the word he used in Norwegian is "Revenant." Which do you prefer, "Ghosts" or "Revenants?" Which seems more applicable to the plot?
** Do you think Mrs. Alving administered the fatal dose of morphine at the end of the play? Why or why not?
** What are the Greek influences on the play?
** If you're from Rockdale county, did this play have special significance for you? Discuss.
17 comments:
I prefer the word revenant for this plot because it reminds me of skeletons in the closet. The skeletons are always present, it's just a matter before they are exposed/revealed.
Yes. Mrs. Alving did not want her beloved son to continue suffering.
The play is the traditional Greek tragedy. There is no happy ending. All of the characters suffered to some extent.
I can proudly say, I am not from Rockdale county but I have heard of the scandalous goings-on in its school system. Shame, shame...
After looking up both words and comparing them I think that revenant fits better in the story. The story deals with the return or reoccurrence of certain scenes and that fits more with the description of revenant. Also, I just like the word better, it just sound more sophisticated than ghost.
I definitely believe that Mrs. Alvin gave her son the morphine at the end of the book. For all of his life she always looked out for her son and never wanted him to have to deal with anything that could possibly be hurtful (like finding out what kind of man his father was) and because of that she would have done it. She knew that there was nothing she could do to help him and so she does not want him to suffer so she gave it to him.
One of the the Greek influences of the play that are apparent deals with having to choose between one’s duty and one’s own desires. Mrs. Alvin was forced to make this decision when she left her husband. The Dionysian thing to do was to leave her family and go off and try to please herself. The Apollonian thing was to stay with her husband and child and do her duty as a wife and mother.
And since I am not from Rockdale County I cannot answer the last question.
I think the term revenant fits best because when someone says ghosts I think of Casper or some type of sheet covered being that floats around scaring little kids but the story’s plot is more focus on Mrs. Alving past (or should I say her beloved husband’s past) coming back to haunt her. The Wikipedia link even says that in medieval depictions they (or the revenants) simply return to harass their surviving families.
To be honest I’m not really sure if Mrs. Alving gave Oswald the fatal dose. Part of me wants to believe she didn’t because what parent can honestly kill their child no matter how much pain they may be in. Not to mention she was so against it at first so to change her mind so quickly about something that would effect both of them for the rest of their lives seems a bit far fetched (to me). But the other half of me believes she did because no one actually wants to see their child suffer. I believe she would have done anything for her child, and that may even mean killing him to make him happy in some sort of sadistic kind of way.
The Greek influences of the play are its focus is on psychological and ethical attributes of characters, rather than physical and sociological, there is no happy ending, close relation to religion, not to mention the Dionysian vs. Apollonian aspects such as the Mrs. Alving decision to run-away from her husband knowing that it was “unacceptable” in her society vs. Mr. Mander’s counsel to stay with/return to her husband.
Even though I am not from Rockdale County I’m sure it sounded very familiar to those who are. Syphilis! (Cough-cough)
I prefer the word revenant because it fits the plot better than ghost. Something coming back to haunt you is more suitable for the plot compare to the word ghost which can mean different things to different people. The word revenant also fits better because it gives a feel for the plot letting one know that it has to do with how ones deeds in the past always affects the future.
I want to say that she did give the morphine because it would end her son's suffering and like we discussed in class that maybe she also took some to end her suffering. But then it is hard to accept this because she is against the entire thought of killing her son, because how can a parent do that. But i am more on the side that she did give it to him.
There is huge Greek influence because it is a tragedy. Not only is the end sad but all the characters in the play suffered and they all had disturbing lives. I also thought that this play had a more Dionysian aspect to it because of how the characters behaved and simply the way the plot was set up.
I am not from Rockdale county.
Personally, I prefer "Ghosts" over "Revenants" . "Reven" often means to return or redeem yourself. These Ghosts in this story are a reminder of continued tradition of misbehavior haunting a person from generation to generation. "Reven", at least to me, implies a "return to redemption" rather than a "return to former" rather than haunting. The characters in this play are haunted by choices their relatives made.
Ms. Alving could have administered a fatal dose of morphine at the end of the play. Some of the characters play out analogies to other characters such as how Oswald and his father are and Regina is to her mother Johanna. When Ms. Alving tells her son and Regina the truth. Ms. Alving's trying to cover her husbands legacy did more damage than the truth. By saying the truth, she tore the family further apart. Making Regina bitter and Ms. Alving's son, Oswald, unstable. It would make sense that in the realization of what she did, she would end her sons life. Almost as a mercy killing rather than having her son live a distorted life.
This kind of reminds me of the show "Arrested Development" and the revelations within the show. This is where some characters find out that they are unrelated to one another and the consequences of each character looking at each other a different way. By different way, I mean that some characters that saw each other as a brother, sister, uncle, etc for so long, if not their entire life, now knowing that they are not related. Where unnatural thoughts were once taboo are lifted on these characters. It is the characters, however, that realize that regardless of their genetic upbringing, they are still family to them and must be treated as such.
The tragedy of this play comes from the revelations the characters face and the destructive nature of these revelations, some that leave characters bitter, others that leave them self-destructive. There's no soft resolution or happy ending to this play.
Also, I'm not from Rockdale County.
I think that Ghosts is more applicable because revenant means to come back and terrorize the living. I don't think the past came back to terrorize her I just think that she needed to deal with the issues. Once the truth came out I think things were avoided that could've been even more disastrous.
I don't think she gave him the morphine. I think her telling him the truth on top of what he was already dealing with led him to do so. I think he gave up and couldn't take anymore bad things happening to him....
The greek influence it has is that it ended with tragic...
I'm not from Rockdale county...
I would prefer revenants as a title of this play because I simply think it fits better than ghosts to the plot. Since Mr. Alving’s dreadful past came back from a long absence to trouble his whole family, revenant would be the perfect description because a ghost, to me, doesn’t seem to have a specific purpose of its presence other than just wandering around and scare people.
I think she’d have given him the morphine. Throughout her miserable life, her son was the only hope for her. I think the whole reason she lived her life the way she lived is because of her son. She doesn’t want her son to find out who Mr. Alving really is and decides to build an orphanage to spend all of Mr. Alving’s money to prevent her son from inheriting it. Now, the only reason of her life is suffering from an unspeakable disease in front of her very eyes and what more Mrs. Alving can do? I think she would’ve killed her son rather than make him suffer from his doomed future.
The most obvious Greek influence on this play is the tragedy. Just like Euripides Bacchae, not a single character in this play ends up with happy ending except maybe Mr. Alving. I think Mr. Alving could be compared to Dionysus because he chooses to live his life just the way he wants which is a very Dionysian thing to do. Also, the presence of his past brings misfortune to others just like Dionysus who destroys the city and the people of Thebes in Bacchae. Of course, the difference is that Mr. Alving is not a god but just a mortal who lacks conscience.
I’m not from Rockdale county, but I don’t think this play would have special significance for someone who’s from that county except the fact that this play depicts some people’s chaotic sexual life and its consequences.
Honestly, I think both are acceptable, however, while i was reading the book. Someone actually commented and asked if the book Ghost is the same as the movie Ghost starring Demi Moore. So, to clear up any confusion I like the title Revenant better.
Mrs. Alving totally delivered the fatal dose of morphine. It wouldn't be a tragedy if the mother didn't kill the son. Plus, it makes it more interesting if she did. Since, their family is already messed up, why not administer the lethal dose?
Ghost has all the elements of a classic Greek tragedy. In a Greek tragedy, death occurs at the end of the play (Oswald dies). Marrying within the blood line (Oswald almost marries his half sister). Downfall occurs (Mrs. Alving loses everything).
Since, "fortunately" I'm not from Rockdale county. I can't answer this question, but if I happen to come across someone maybe lets say from our class that is from Rockdale county I certainly will ask them how she felt.
I feel that Revenants would be more applicable to the plot. Revenant means to return from the afterlife so it would seem fitting that to Mrs. Alving's horror, Captain Alving's sin returns after he has passed on.
I think she did administer the fatal dose because it seemed like by the end she felt everything she tried to control was falling apart including her orphanage and the secrets she tried to keep hidden.
Greek influence is evident in this play especially where you see Dionysian and Apollonian elements. It's like the male characters (excluding the Pastor Manders) exucded traits of Dionysus and the women were the ones who brought forth restraint and Apollonian traits.
I prefer the word ghost because like waredcore said,a revenant comes back for revenge or to redeem. It seems that regina and oswald are just reminders that float around mrs. alvings present life, so i would definitley say ghost seems more applicable to the plot.
I definitley believe Mrs. alving administered the fatal dose of morphine at the end of the play. She is a sketchy women and she likes to hide things. she probaly just didn't want to see her son suffer or maybe she didn't want to suffer the embarassment of having a son with syphillous(i have no idea how to spell that word)
One major greek influence is the tragic ending.Poor oswald got syphillous and was probaly murdered by his mother. There is always a tragic ending to greek story.
Sorry not from rockdale
I think I prefer the term Revenant. When I think of the term ghost, I think of a haunting by what remains of that living person, acting out of its own desires. A ghosts haunts a house because it still believes it belongs in that house, not to directly affect the people habituating the house. A Revenant on the other hand is somehow attached to the individual(s) experience's its presence. Wikipedia defines it as 'a visible ghost or animated corpse that was believed to return from the grave to terrorize the living'. It is there with the purpose of affecting the living. Captain Alving's Revenant is visiting its affects on the living members of his family, most directly his son.
I'd like to think she is attempting to end the cycle of pain cause by secrets, lies and sheer memory of her husband. If her son is suffering in life the sins of her dead husband, then yes I do believe she is assisting him in ending the pain as quickly as possible.
The whole tragic motif. This is a cursed family, enduring the wrath of Captain Alving's Revenant. I'm going to tie this in with one of my favorite movies, a quote from one mother to another, 'Don't you find it interesting Jessica, how the sins of the mother bloom in the children they bear? ' (Children of Dune 2003) In this case of course its the father's sins which are affect the son. Also there is the whole incest thing, totally Greek drama.
I'm from Monroe County, so no.
I agree that revenant is probably the best term for the title of this book. As has been stated by others, it's a more specific term, that applies more strongly to the themes of the story. That said, I don't think Ghosts is an inappropriate title, it is just more general.
I don't really think that I can speculate either way on the actions of the characters after the end of the book. The author left this out intentionally, so he probably wanted to leave it open-ended. I mean, I could make something up, but then that would enter the realm of fan-fiction, a genre I try to avoid.
There are many elements of Greek tragedy present, most noticeably the Apollonian/Dionysian dichotomy.
* I prefer the word revenant because when you say ghost it makes it seem like the spirit had unresolved issues. Which was not the case. It seemed as if the living people had the unresolved issues from past secrets that would not let the spirit of Mrs. Alvings terrible husband move on.
** I think Mrs. Alving did not want her son to suffer as most mothers don’t. So she gave him the fatal shot of morphine.
*** I see greek influence in the play in that the whole play centers around secrets and everybody is tragically affected by these family secrets.
*Ibsen had a right to not like "Ghosts". I like "Revenants" much better. The story tells of the problems that may come from having things that seem as if they are left in the past continuously effecting the present and future. When I hear Revenants I thing of remains. Something that is always there like it or not.
*I think Mrs. Alving gave the fatal dose of morphine. I think she was very hurt to see her son suffering. In great Greek tragic formula, it would not be far fetched to say that she took part into this fatal dose so that she could end the curse for good. I do understand this may be reaching but if this was a made for TV movie I would add that element for sure.
*The Greek influence is the fatal flaws of the father and the family curse. Also, the structure stays very close to the unfolding of Greek tragedies. But the main thing is the "sins of the father".
*Luckily, I am not from syphilis ridden Rockdale County. =) Just playing...but seriously... I'm really not.
ghosts implies something supernatural about the plot that does not ever happen. revenant seems to be more thematically linked to the play.
i do think that mrs. alving did it because she wanted to end the suffering of her son so it was a mercy killing.
the greek influence seemed to be the dismalness and the idea that the characters were doomed before the play even began
something is rot in both ghosts and rockdale county
I think that the word revenant fits better. To me a ghost normally really couldn't care less about the living they usually just reenact their death over and over again. However, a revenant normally comes back specifically to terrorize the living. To me ultimately this story is about Mrs. Alving trying to save her son from the proverbial revenant of her husband's actions.
Yes, what mother wouldn't knowing what her son was going through and was going to go through. I think most parents would if their children were suffering.
One major Greek influence on the play is the lack of a happy ending. A second link to Greek drama is that we are never given a true ending.
I would prefer Revenant as the title because it seem that the plot was mostly about Mr. Alvingthe past coming back and haunting Mrs. Alving and the family. Even though I don't believe in a parent killing their own child, I believe that Mrs. Alving really did give the fatal dose to her son at the end of the story. The rea tradegies son is because she did not wanted her son to suffer anymore for what he has gone thru.
One greek influence in the play is that there is only tragedy at the end of the story.
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